November 21, 2009, 11:44 am

Is Torture Ever Acceptable?

            A few days ago, President Obama issued an executive order de-classifying some Bush Administration memos that showed clearly that torture was authorized as an interrogation method for members of the CIA.  That raised, once again , the issue of whether or not the United States should use torture to get information from the people captured in our fight against terrorists. 

            Whenever this issue comes up, some variation of the “ticking bomb” scenario is usually considered.  It goes like this: A massive nuclear bomb is about to the detonated in a large American city and perhaps millions of people will be killed.  A CIA operative has captured a person, and there is strong evidence that this person knows the whereabouts of the bomb and how to disarm it.  Is torturing this person in order to obtain that information morally acceptable?  The discussion usually centers around one of two philosophical notions.  The first imposes the enlightenment philosopher Immanuel Kant’s categorical imperative.  Act only on that maxim whereby you can allow it to become universal law.”  In other words, you can allow torture if you would allow others to use torture whenever they wished.  Since it is obvious we would not wish that torture be universally employed, Kantian philosophy says torture by anyone can never be considered moral behavior. The second brings up Jeremy Bentham’s utilitarian ethics.  Bentham argued that ethical behavior involves doing the most good for the most people.  So for Bentham and utilitarians, torturing one person in order to save millions (or even hundreds) would be a morally acceptable act. 

            Philosophical questions notwithstanding, there is a more practical question to be answered: Can you actually get reliable information from torture.  A person will say anything to stop the pain.  What little research there has been on torture has shown it to produce singularly inaccurate intelligence.  In the “ticking bomb” scenario, it would be impossible to check out what the victim of your torture says before the bomb goes off.  Furthermore, unless you happen to be Jack Bauer, on the TV show 24, it is extremely unlikely anyone will actually encounter a ticking-bomb situation.  It only happens in movies, Tom Clancy novels, or TV shows that authorities capture a man they know has knowledge of a bomb eminently about to explode. 

            A more likely scenario is that authorities capture a person they think might have knowledge of some future plot that may or may not be planned.  Is it ethical, in other words,  to torture a suspected terrorist?  Suppose the person does not answer the question because he does not know, how far do you take the torture?  If you subject a person to torture, then later discover that the person had no knowledge of the questions asked, what do you say to that person?  “Oops!  Sorry about that.”

            In sum, what can we say about the use of torture for interrogation?  First, the information you get is unreliable.  Second, there is a really good chance that torture will be used on an innocent person.  Third, and in my view most important, using torture places the user at the same ethical level as the Iraqis under Saddam or any of the most depraved dictators.  Finally, the use of torture sets a precedent.  If we torture, it is more likely that any American soldiers, captured by future enemies, will be subjected to torture.   

            Torture is morally reprehensible.  It debases people to their most barbarous level.  But torture defiles not only the one being tortured, it corrupts the torturer as well.  A good bit of research has shown that people who subject others to violence, become themselves acclimated to their violent behavior and less concerned, as time goes on, about the pain they are inflicting.  If the U.S. wants to live up to its own moral values and the treaties it has willingly endorsed, it will follow the leadership of Senator John McCain and President Barack Obama and steer clear of any use of torture in the interrogation of prisoners.                       


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rusty
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The US does not have a treaty with the Muslim Terrorist or Al-Qaida.  They are enemy combatants.


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Captain Jack Sparrow
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Just a thought,, We treat Them,,,  like they treat U.S.

Braveheart
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Why is it Chillary and Nobama are afraid to release the results of the techniques we use. Need a hint?  


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Bob Hertzog
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Hi rusty... Thanks for the comment.... No we don't have a treaty with terrorists of any religion.  They are criminals... we should catch them, put them on trial and if convicted punish them appropriately.  That does not include torture.

Hi Captian Jack... Thanks for your comment.  "Treat them like they treat us."  Well now that would put us in the same category with them.  I don't want that and I really don't think you do.

Braveheart... Thanks for the comment.  We agree on one thing.  I too want the results of the interrogations released.  We should know it all and get to the bottom of the situation.  However, just because some one told something under tortutre, does not mean that that same information might not have been gotten through some ethical method.  Torture is a shortcut that produces very little valuable information and most important, it puts us in the same gutter with the terrorists.  

Braveheart
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jacquline
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to bad we don't have a way to give them a shot ( like in the movies ) that makes then tell truth when asked a question. seams to me when every anyone is  tortured they will tell you what you want to hear,  not truth. i don't want to become like the animals they are.


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Total_Mayhem
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Why not Bob, we all accept the torture of each and everyone of the blog post.. with comments from a trained professional..with many years under the belt.. 70+...  so yes.. I think torture is acceptable.. LMAO..

I'm just kid'n ya Bob, Some of your ideas just make me laugh.. I enjoy the reads.. You do a great job, stirring the "pot".. Raising the "Obama Zombies" using a form of torture on the readers/posters/debaters.. most of all when debates get going hard on the blog, known lessening the ability to argue the point, educated enough when to back off.. let it die.. and get some more controversy going in a few days with another blog post.. .. about something else..whoo hoo.. that is why your here.. to stoke the fire.. Kudos

Keep the fire burning Bob.. keep our Gray matter alive with ideas..

T_M Out & Over.. What I don't know..


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Bob Hertzog
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Hello Total... Thanks for your observation. 

Braveheart
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Cheney Calls For More CIA Reports To Be Declassified
Mon Apr 20 2009 16:20:53 ET

In a two part interview airing tonight and tomorrow night on FOX News Channel’s Hannity (9-10PM ET), former Vice President Dick Cheney shared his thoughts on the CIA memos that were recently declassified and also revealed his request to the CIA to declassify additional memos that confirm the success of the Bush administration’s interrogation tactics:

CHENEY:

“One of the things that I find a little bit disturbing about this recent disclosure is they put out the legal memos, the memos that the CIA got from the Office of Legal Counsel, but they didn't put out the memos that showed the success of the effort. And there are reports that show specifically what we gained as a result of this activity. They have not been declassified.”

“I formally asked that they be declassified now. I haven't announced this up until now, I haven't talked about it, but I know specifically of reports that I read, that I saw that lay out what we learned through the interrogation process and what the consequences were for the country.”

“And I've now formally asked the CIA to take steps to declassify those memos so we can lay them out there and the American people have a chance to see what we obtained and what we learned and how good the intelligence was, as well as to see this debate over the legal opinions.”

Developing...

OK Bob, If you're against our way of gathering information then how would you do it better?


The prisoner wishes to say a word.............Freedom!!!!!!!

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