Wednesday Morning Smackdown

Thank you Palehorse.

I too was struck by the obvious disconnect between the perp's actions and his claim to be a christian.  That is what makes him a hypocrite. To me it showed that anyone can twist anything into a reason to be intolerant and violent if that is a person's basic nature.  It gives christianity a bad name in spite of my understanding that Jesus's fundamental message was about Love with a capital 'L'.  It is the perp's kind of attitude which raises the hackles of people of other faiths, and people in other religions can point to it and say, "See?  That's what christians are.  That's why we have to take up arms and protect ourselves from them." It is the kind of attitude which has put the clerics in power in countries like Iran. Zealotry creates enemies. It doesn't inspire love.   If it doesn't inspire love, then it's NOT what Jesus was all about, imho.

Contrast Palehorse's story to what happened between Pope John Paul II and his Turkish would-be assassin.  Mehmet Agca tried to murder the Pope in 1981 when he fired two bullets into the Pope's lower intestine, and another two bullets into his left hand and right arm. The Pope 'lost nearly three-quarters of his blood and thus suffered shock from near-exsanguination (in other words, he almost bled out completely), underwent five hours of emergency intestinal surgery- which required transfusions and a temporary colostomy', according to what I've read.  What do you think the Pope did after he was healed?  Did he try to punish the perp? Absolutely not.  He put true Christianity into action: he forgave his attacker.   According to one source:

"Following the shooting, Pope John Paul II asked people to "pray for my brother (Ağca), whom I have sincerely forgiven." In 1983, he and Ağca met and spoke privately at the prison where Ağca was being held. The Pope was also in touch with Ağca's family over the years, meeting his mother in 1987 and his brother a decade later.

"Although Ağca had been quoted as saying that "to me [the Pope] was the incarnation of all that is capitalism", and attempting to murder him, Ağca developed a friendship with the pontiff. In early February 2005, during the Pope's illness, Ağca sent a letter to the Pope wishing him well and also warning him that the world would end soon.

"Inspired by this act of forgiveness, Christian music artist Steve Taylor wrote the song, "To Forgive," which appeared on his 1985 release, "On the Fritz."

 The Pope's action was FAR truer to Jesus's teachings than the perp in Palehorse's story, who obviously doesn't understand the christianity he claims to believe and is therefore more likely to create distrust and misperception of Jesus and christianity - the exact opposite of what Jesus would have wanted, imo.

Of course I expect that others will have differing "take-aways" (aka 'lessons') from both Palehorse's story and my explanation.  I also expect that we all can discuss our thoughts like adults and not resort to flaming and name-calling which are certainly not very christian things to do.

One guy offended another guy enough to recieve a kick in the gonads, the only thing that religion had to do with it was the first guy was running off at the mouth about how much he hated Christians to a Christian.

Why don't you try mouthing off about how much you hate Jews to Jews or Blacks to Blacks & see how much "Love" with a capital "L" you recieve in return.

Your characterization of the event doesn't fit the facts Palehorse stated. The first offense was when the so-called christian attempted to proselytize the victim.  For all we know, the victim was already a christian.  He simply and quietly explained that he didn't want or need anyone proselytizing him. For this he did not deserve to be physically attacked and put into the hospital. 

In other words, the first person who felt offended was the victim.  The perp decided to take offense to the victim's comment that he didn't like being proselytized.  Palehorse did NOT say that the victim hated christians. You made that up. Instead, PH said the victim said "... he is tired of being preached to by people coming to his door all of the time". He had a perfect right to say this. Plus, the victim was on break and obviously didn't request someone to witness to him.  If most people went to a restaurant for lunch and the waitress began witnessing to them, it wouldn't be long before she would lose her job.  People do not want someone's religion shoved down their throats, even if they're already christians. It is offensive and socially unacceptable to the majority of people.

Once again, your comment

is exactly the kind of intolerance, hatred and disrespect I've come to see in some people who claim to be christian without understanding what true christianity is all about.  You insinuate that I hate christians. At no time did I ever say I hate christians or christianity.  In fact, I explicitly said that is NOT the case.  Your posts are veritable showcases of hatred and venom and are NOT typical of most of the christians on this site, thank God.

Between the two of us, Richard, who is the one who is acting more unchristian?  Be very careful how you respond to that question because it will show others here what kind of effect christianity has had on how you basically treat other people.

I think this thread is getting out of control. imo I found it interesting what PH had to say about things going on in a already stressful environment,  and how they can escalate into a much bigger issue. People need to know that more is going on then just loosing jobs.  I just hope things have calmed down for him and the people he works with. 

I see valued points in all the comments made, If it pertains to religion or politics there will always be a form of fire thrown in many directions.. Those are 2 of the hardest type situations to discuss with each individual holding to their own conclusion with tight drawn reins..

The very reason kpaul allows us all to discus topics here still lays with the true thought of we all can agree to disagree, that is the beauty of the AFP threads we all enjoy, and choose to use.. 

I respect each and every one of your thoughts & opinions.. When it comes to the political replies or religious direction.. I have, and mostly have chosen to keep that in my personal & private thoughts..

Many times though, I do know you all as readers have seen my ending my comments with God Bless so, I do at times voice that.. 

Thank you all for your vivacious comments, they enlighten my thoughts about the many subjects discussed & commented on..

That in itself adds to the reason I read and enjoy the AFP Threads.... 

this made my day to darn funny..lol

The way I viewed it, Palehorse's story was meant to portray a stressful working environment and its effects on its employees. It raised the question of corporate responsibility.  His thread could have taken the path which explored similar roles in events like US postal workers "going postal", or stressful high school social situations turning into something like Columbine.  Instead, it focused on the sub-plot which was a combination of violence, intolerance, christian proselytizing and offensiveness. That was what seemed to strike a chord in Richard, to which I responded.

If you wish to go back to discussing extreme job stress and drop the discussion of zealotry, it's fine with me.

I see valued points in all the comments made, If it pertains to religion or politics there will always be a form of fire thrown in many directions.. Those are 2 of the hardest type situations to discuss with each individual holding to their own conclusion with tight drawn reins..

Bard:

Religion and politics are two of the most important things people have in common.  They should be able to discuss them peacefully and respectfully and at the end of the day they should realize that everyone has the right to their own opinion without the need to be punished for it.

Total_Mayhem:

The very reason kpaul allows us all to discus topics here still lays with the true thought of we all can agree to disagree, that is the beauty of the AFP threads we all enjoy, and choose to use.. 

I respect each and every one of your thoughts & opinions.. When it comes to the political replies or religious direction.. I have, and mostly have chosen to keep that in my personal & private thoughts..

Bard:

I respect your decision to withhold your participation and certainly don't think the less of you for it. You're a good man and I enjoy chatting with you.

Total_Mayhem:

Many times though, I do know you all as readers have seen my ending my comments with God Bless so, I do at times voice that.. 

Thank you all for your vivacious comments, they enlighten my thoughts about the many subjects discussed & commented on..

That in itself adds to the reason I read and enjoy the AFP Threads.... 

Bard:

I too have asked for God's blessing for other posters and families on the prayer request thread and on Braveheart's Independence Day thread; while I believe in God, I do not force anyone to share my belief and I do not think they are evil and need punishment if they do not.  I figure God in its infinite wisdom will provide them lessons at the appropriate time. That is Its business after all, not mine.

God bless you all, including Total_Mayhem, Braveheart, Krol and Richard and all the rest of the AFP family.

This statement is a blatant mischaracterization of the entire incident and my posting, Richard. And your subsequent postings are indicative of someone spoiling for an argument as opposed to an adult discussion of the differing perspectives surrounding the situation.

I'd reply further but Bard has done a more than adequate job of detailing what I will go so far as to now call "our" perspective concerning the avenues brought up surrounding it.  (Excellent job Bard, as usual, and thank you!)  I share Bard's views.

Yes, things are stressful at work and to the point where it is very much a negative environment that presents an unsafe workplace for most of the folks there. From the distractions brought about by the actual loss of income, to the quick-fused tempers the environment is driving, the normal dangers presented by an industrial environment are only magnified.

I have no desire to see such an environment brought into my diversions, such as this forum.